Talk:Church (building)

Mystery and morality plays

mystery and morality plays were a big attraction to early churches and plays a large part of much of today's theatrical rocking evangelical churches today. theater church and drama are very much linked esp. if you've visited a high mass lately. I'm interested in hearing the relation can be so easily shunt aside...dgd — Preceding undated comment added 14:43, 21 October 2002 (UTC)

morality plays didn't show up until sometime in the Middle Ages, after the Church had been around for over 1,000 years. Yes, theatre and drama appear to play a role in some evangelical churches; haven't visited a high mass lately, so I don't know about that. But it doesn't play a role in every church everywhere, or even in most churches, especially over the last 2,000 year span. Listing them generically implies that it does. Perhaps more specific mention could be made of the role drama does play and has played historically; I just want the scope to be clearly delineated. Wesley — Preceding undated comment added 15:26, 21 October 2002 (UTC)

You seem more emotionally attached to this subject Wesley. why don't you find a way to work in the history of theater in the church. Consider as well the greek church/ theater connection as well. cheers. dgd — Preceding unsigned comment added by DennisDaniels (talk • contribs) 15:33, 21 October 2002 (UTC)

This is an interesting angle. It brings to my mind the roots of opera in the oratorio, and the links between oratorio and the sacred music and liturgical chant of the Mass. However, although I know mystery and morality plays were a big attraction to early Christians, I think that there is a difference there, between early Christians and early churches. Half a dozen vaguely remembered homilies come to mind, from Chrysostom and others, which put a great distance between Christian attitudes toward theater, and the Church's attitude toward it. Mkmcconn — Preceding undated comment added 20:06, 21 October 2002 (UTC)

Yes, you're right about the slant about early Christians. The idea though that keeps eating at me are the big Nativity and Easter plays that people in the Bible Belt of the United States swarm too, this is definitely Religious Drama or Religious Theater and it's taking places in large churches throughout the world. The Easter plays on google [Society > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity > Arts > Performing Arts ] is long and certainly points to the use of American churches to use entertainment as a vehicle for proselytizing (sp?) and deserves mention so as to better understand the phenomenon and origins of Religion of pre and post Puritanical america.-- User:DennisDaniels — Preceding undated comment added 20:35, 21 October 2002 (UTC)

You're onto something important, there. Even the liturgical renewal movement seems to have aesthetics and drama at the center of why traditional forms need to be recovered. From bible-belt Passion plays to [Hell House ], there is a definite tie-in with theater in modern ideas of "church". I've visited evangelical churches that have nothing recognizably churchy about them - pure entertainment (movies, football games, mime, concerts, just about anything but rites or sermons) - and it's quite intentional; and I've heard that similar things are happening in trendy Roman catholic churches although I have no experience with that. Personally, it's repugnant. But, it is fact that this is happening and, it's not a fringe phenomenon. Mkmcconn — Preceding undated comment added 20:56, 21 October 2002 (UTC)

True. I think a lot of it is done in the name of being "seeker friendly", and "culturally relevant"; a couple of flagship evangelical churches that get mentioned a lot in connection with this are Willow Creek in Chicago and Saddleback, I think somewhere in Ohio. I forget their full names. I think it's also one product of a lot of the "church growth" sociological studies done in the last few decades. These studies examine a range of parishes and try to correlate sociological and demographic factors with the rate of church growth (or decline). When they find a correlation, they then try to duplicate that church growth by duplicating the sociological and demographic factors. You see something vaguely similar being done when the Salvation Army denomination was founded, in their use of brass bands and avoidance of baptism and communion, for generally similar reasons.

Perhaps this topic should be written up as a subsection of the Church article, both to deal with it in greater detail and also to place it in its historical context. Wesley — Preceding undated comment added 21:08, 21 October 2002 (UTC)

It is true that western theater has roots in part in ecclesiastical drama, but is it necessary to include this information in this article? A brief mention with a link to a larger article would be more useful. For what it's worth some day, real soon now, I will be working on a Medieval Drama or Medieval Theater page. David Stapleton 11:48, 13 October 2003 (UTC)

The bible as history?

This article quotes the christian bible as history? JesusCantSave — Preceding undated comment added 07:35, 4 March 2004 (UTC)

Actually, whether you believe that Jesus can save or no, the Bible is a historical document and is supported by several other historical documents. Ancient Near Eastern literature from many different nations is helpful in determining the truth of history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justct40 (talk • contribs) 19:14, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Caption needs work

The caption of the illustration needs attention. If a church can be a Christian building of worship then it also can not be a Christian building of worship. Moriori 07:50, 4 March 2004 (UTC)

Terminology

Some interesting bit of trivia: "traditional" French protestant churches (i.e. those installed early on, as opposed to Christian denominations imported in the 19th or 20th centuries from the United States) call their places of worship "temple", not churches; I think that the idea was to distinguish themselves from the Roman Catholic Church. Similarly, they don't say messe (mass), but office. David.Monniaux 16:19, 15 April 2005 (UTC)

"كنيسة" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect كنيسة has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 23 § كنيسة until a consensus is reached. Steel1943 (talk) 01:01, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 30 March 2025

• Church (building) → Church
• Church → Church (disambiguation)

– This is clearly the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. 2600:1700:6180:6290:7041:F0A:8E8A:22E4 (talk) 03:24, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose 1st but move Catholic Church to Church. No – never mind – that should be Christian denomination. Oops, sorry, make that Church (congregation). Hmm, no, that should be Christian Church. Temple, anyone? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 04:19, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose, both the building and the congregation are accurately called 'church'. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:10, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose, see Church (congregation). 162 etc. (talk) 20:42, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose. The claim of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC seems doubtful (see the Church (disambiguation) DAB page) and no evidence has been cited to support it. Feline Hymnic (talk) 11:57, 31 March 2025 (UTC)